Engineered Flooring HOWTO v2.0
Submitted by Steve on Sun, 04/15/2007 - 12:04am.
I don't like drywall. I like plaster. I don't like composite mouldings. I like hardwood. Heck, I don't even like prefab mouldings. I like to cut my own. So why would I like something as new-fangled and artificial as engineered flooring?
Actually, I don't. Even though I went through bloody hell to lay those herringbone floors in the living room, solid hardwood is still my first choice. But there were reasons why engineered flooring was the better option for the second floor in my house. One is that I didn't want to add an extra 1.25" to the height of the top stair. That's what would have been required if I'd gone with 3/4" hardwood. I can't count the number of times I've tripped because of uneven stair heights, on one occasion fracturing a shoulder. Also, an engineered floor has a finish at least twice as hard as that of any job-site applied finish. With two big dogs tearing up my hardwood floors downstairs that's not a small selling point for me.
Just to be clear, engineered flooring is in a different class from laminate a/k/a Pergo™ flooring. It's got a facing of real hardwood over a plywood backing. You can even sand them, although the best grades have 30 year warranties. Here's a pretty good engineered flooring FAQ so I won't go into the details, except that I chose Mannington's Ashville Oak Plank -- the same stuff I used in my office and guest room and which has held up very well.
Here's the floor I started with:
Before some wag says, "Hey, the original floors look great! Just refinish them!", I did! Five years ago. These yellow pine floors are a PITA. Despite three coats of oil poly, they're delaminating. This is probably due to years of some PO using liquid wax on the raw wood which only melted further into the floor with the heat of sanding. I've got so many splinter scars in my feet they look like they belong to a junkie.
'nuff said. Let's move on to the HowTo.
Preparation is critical to laying an engineered floor. The first step is to tighten up the existing floor to eliminate squeaks. I did this by driving 1-5/8" deck screws into each floor board at every intersecting joist. Five pounds of 'em in the bedroom and hallway.
I used a nail finder to locate the joists and penciled a guide line down the floor.
Next, use a six-foot level or a very straight board to look for high spots in the existing floor. Any bump 1/4" higher than the surrounding floor over six feet should be sanded down. Fortunately, I only had one of them. A belt sander made quick work of it.
Now you've got to deal with the low spots, with the same dimensional restrictions. The solution in this case is floor leveler, a vinyl-fortified cement mix. I used Armstrong S-194. Sand the area with 60 grit to remove the old finish, mix up the leveler and trowel it on. Use a screed board to level it with the adjoining floor. This stuff dries very quickly (12-20 minutes) so mix small batches. It also sticks to anything, including expensive lavatory faucets. Ask me how I know.
Then vacuum the floor thoroughly, fixing any protruding screw heads.
Depending on how you will lay the floor, you're almost there. You have three installation options with engineered flooring: floating, glue-down or staple down. I'd never have a floating floor in my house so we'll skip that one. I did a glue-down in my office. While the results were good and in some respects superior to staple-down, it was one of the most miserable, messy jobs I've ever tackled. I wouldn't recommend it.
Staple-down is the way to go. But you'll need a compressor and a stapler capable of driving heavy 1-3/8" staples, like the Spotnails WS4840. They're expensive but don't even think about buying one new. You can find them on eBay for around $40. They're almost useless for anything but laying flooring so a lot of them wind up there after their owners' flooring jobs are completed.
Using a hammer stapler, lay down either rosin paper or builders felt. I prefer 15 pound builders felt because it has a slight cushion to it. You can also use 30 pound felt, or two layers of 15, for additional cushion.
The first course is the most important. If it's cockeyed, your floor will be a mess. The instructions that come with the flooring will explain the details and caveats. All I can add to them, besides the warning to read those instructions carefully, is to watch the depth of your staples. My manual said to set the compressor to 80psi. Because I had a hundred-foot hose on the compressor, I needed 90psi to get the staples to seat properly. This is important because of the tight tolerances in the flooring tongues. If the staples are too high you'll see little lumps in the face of the finished floor, which will become abrasion points later. Too low and they'll split the tongue.
I got this much done in five hours. Keep the floors clean!. Sawdust on these prefinished floors makes them as slippery as ice.
Actually, I don't. Even though I went through bloody hell to lay those herringbone floors in the living room, solid hardwood is still my first choice. But there were reasons why engineered flooring was the better option for the second floor in my house. One is that I didn't want to add an extra 1.25" to the height of the top stair. That's what would have been required if I'd gone with 3/4" hardwood. I can't count the number of times I've tripped because of uneven stair heights, on one occasion fracturing a shoulder. Also, an engineered floor has a finish at least twice as hard as that of any job-site applied finish. With two big dogs tearing up my hardwood floors downstairs that's not a small selling point for me.
Just to be clear, engineered flooring is in a different class from laminate a/k/a Pergo™ flooring. It's got a facing of real hardwood over a plywood backing. You can even sand them, although the best grades have 30 year warranties. Here's a pretty good engineered flooring FAQ so I won't go into the details, except that I chose Mannington's Ashville Oak Plank -- the same stuff I used in my office and guest room and which has held up very well.
Here's the floor I started with:
Before some wag says, "Hey, the original floors look great! Just refinish them!", I did! Five years ago. These yellow pine floors are a PITA. Despite three coats of oil poly, they're delaminating. This is probably due to years of some PO using liquid wax on the raw wood which only melted further into the floor with the heat of sanding. I've got so many splinter scars in my feet they look like they belong to a junkie.
'nuff said. Let's move on to the HowTo.
Preparation is critical to laying an engineered floor. The first step is to tighten up the existing floor to eliminate squeaks. I did this by driving 1-5/8" deck screws into each floor board at every intersecting joist. Five pounds of 'em in the bedroom and hallway.
I used a nail finder to locate the joists and penciled a guide line down the floor.
Next, use a six-foot level or a very straight board to look for high spots in the existing floor. Any bump 1/4" higher than the surrounding floor over six feet should be sanded down. Fortunately, I only had one of them. A belt sander made quick work of it.
Now you've got to deal with the low spots, with the same dimensional restrictions. The solution in this case is floor leveler, a vinyl-fortified cement mix. I used Armstrong S-194. Sand the area with 60 grit to remove the old finish, mix up the leveler and trowel it on. Use a screed board to level it with the adjoining floor. This stuff dries very quickly (12-20 minutes) so mix small batches. It also sticks to anything, including expensive lavatory faucets. Ask me how I know.
Then vacuum the floor thoroughly, fixing any protruding screw heads.
Depending on how you will lay the floor, you're almost there. You have three installation options with engineered flooring: floating, glue-down or staple down. I'd never have a floating floor in my house so we'll skip that one. I did a glue-down in my office. While the results were good and in some respects superior to staple-down, it was one of the most miserable, messy jobs I've ever tackled. I wouldn't recommend it.
Staple-down is the way to go. But you'll need a compressor and a stapler capable of driving heavy 1-3/8" staples, like the Spotnails WS4840. They're expensive but don't even think about buying one new. You can find them on eBay for around $40. They're almost useless for anything but laying flooring so a lot of them wind up there after their owners' flooring jobs are completed.
Using a hammer stapler, lay down either rosin paper or builders felt. I prefer 15 pound builders felt because it has a slight cushion to it. You can also use 30 pound felt, or two layers of 15, for additional cushion.
The first course is the most important. If it's cockeyed, your floor will be a mess. The instructions that come with the flooring will explain the details and caveats. All I can add to them, besides the warning to read those instructions carefully, is to watch the depth of your staples. My manual said to set the compressor to 80psi. Because I had a hundred-foot hose on the compressor, I needed 90psi to get the staples to seat properly. This is important because of the tight tolerances in the flooring tongues. If the staples are too high you'll see little lumps in the face of the finished floor, which will become abrasion points later. Too low and they'll split the tongue.
I got this much done in five hours. Keep the floors clean!. Sawdust on these prefinished floors makes them as slippery as ice.






The Wood Flooring Cheat Sheet by cityhammer.com
Choosing engineered wood flooring vs. laminates vs. the real thing can be difficult, especially when you consider all the other decisions you have to make for your floor...
I put together this "Cheat Sheet" to help homeowners in New York with a starting point and some very basic knowledge on what the options are.
CHECK IT OUT: http://www.cityhammer.com/tips/show/?id=34
Thanks, Joshua
In fact, after a couple of years with it I've come to the conclusion that engineered flooring is about the least durable flooring you can buy. The manufacturers claim that the finish on engineered flooring is much harder than the job-site applied finish (i.e. urethane) over a typical solid wood floor. That claim may be true but it's disingenuous as an overall durability claim. What they omit is that engineered flooring is a LOT more prone to dents and gouges than either a hardwood or laminate floor. A hard finish won't prevent that.
One of the most popular Google search phrases sending people to this site is some variation of "dogs+engineered flooring". Metaphorically, that might as well be "oil+water". The two definitely do not mix. Neither do engineered floors and women's stiletto heels.
While the top layer of an engineered floor may be real hardwood with a very wear-resistant finish, the plywood substrate beneath it is soft. That hardwood layer is simply too thin and flexible to resist denting by itself.
Worse, engineered floors can cost as much, or even more, than a solid hardwood floor. Online, I paid $5.50/sf for the Mannington stuff I used here. I could have bought solid, pre-finished oak t&g flooring for about the same price. In the end, the installation job would have been about the same as well. Instead of a pneumatic stapler I would have used a floor nailer.
My advice to anyone considering engineered flooring is, "forget it". Or at least until they produce engineered floors with a carbon fiber or kevlar substrate. Unless you have no animals and you walk around in stocking feet, go with solid hardwood.
Engineered Flooring
I must first admit that I am a floor finisher so I am biased towards site finished floors. I install quite a bit of engineered flooring and have done a lot of it in commercial applications. I use a flooring product made by Owens Flooring. They make a great product that doesn't have the problems you mentioned like being to thin or soft. I truely believe these products to be superior to solid flooring for a number of reasons. First of all is how well the flooring products are milled. They are so precise in the milling that I don't have to "cut" the floor hard with my sanders so there is more wear layer than you get when you use solid flooring which means it can be sanded more times. Next is how stable these products are. I put these products in a Yoga Studio that has classes where the temp in the room is 75 degrees and 10 minutes later they have a class where it is 105 degrees. This floor has been in place for one year now and we haven't had any complaints. In fact, I send potential customers there to look and see how well the floors hold up. Anyway, just my two cents worth...
Charlie
www.GetClassicHardwood.com
Unless those yoga students
Unless those yoga students are working out in high heels, you probably wouldn't see much damage to their engineered floor.
Since engineered floors are a relatively new product I'm curious why you found yourself needing to sand one so early in its lifetime. A solid hardwood floor can easily go 30+ years between sandings.
When I researched this before purchase, Mannington was one of the top-rated engineered flooring products for durability.
Durability
very valid concerns...I think there is also some difference between manufacturers and also the thickness of the top layer of "engineered" wood...
You will also find varying opinions on whether engineered floors are viable for kitchens or under washer/dryer machines. I'd lean toward keeping engineered wood out of a kitchen altogether but with the new trend of opening one's kitchen onto the den or living room, many people want that all-one-floor look and don't want to break it up with tile.
engineered flooring
We have an old home that needs new floors. In the 1980's addition, we put laminate down, figuring it would hold up to the dogs (each over 80 lbs), boys (3 sons, ages 14 to 4) and general debris. I also didn't feel too guilty for not using hardwood since it was a later year addition. The floors do hold up. The dogs take off running on it and there are no scratches. HOWEVER, I haven't found a way to clean it. There are streaks all over the floor, no matter what I do. I've heard that if I get down on my hands and knees and use a cloth and rub hard and only in one direction, there will be no streaks. With three boys, 2 dogs, 2 jobs and an old home to restore you KNOW we have time for that. It's really frustrating. As for engineered floors, we considered putting them in the entry way and connecting dining room, since they are supposedly more durable. I'm very glad that I found your website. So, what IS durable with large dogs? Would factory finish hardwood floors hold up to the claws of animals as they decide to take off after the cat? (I forgot about her) Or, will I get claw marks either way and just need to choose between a scratched up hard wood floor and a scratched up engineered floor? As far as I'm concerned, until I find a practical cleaning method, laminate floors just aren't an option. Besides the guilt (putting laminate in a new home feels okay, an old home with 100 year old 10inch wood trim?), I just can't deal with the streaky mess.
Denise's floors
I can't offer any cleaning solutions for laminate floors but have you tried white vinegar and water? Streaking is usually caused by the cleaner left on the floor. Water evaporates without leaving any residue except for spotting, which the white vinegar takes care of.
I don't think there's a wood floor made that will stand up to large, energetic dogs but there are degrees of damage. My hardwood floor on the first floor had held up a LOT better than the engineered floors but it's got scrapes and claw abrasions too... fortunately not down to the wood yet. I think probably the best solution is a solid hardwood floor with 4 or 5 coats of a job site-applied oil-modified urethane and NO STAIN. Not staining the floors means you can do periodic rescreenings followed by another coat or two of urethane. Acid-cure and moisture-cure urethanes are tougher than oil but I *think* they need to be completely removed before refinishing.
I had to go with laminate
I had to go with laminate because of a west facing window and lots of fading on the old carpet. Instead of dogs, I have a cat that now likes to run down the hall and slide into the glass door at the end. I keep looking for scratches, but nothing. However, the best result of putting down flooring is that my son's asthma problems went down 90%. Amazing. Love your site, keep up the good work (and the photos!).
The biggest problem with
The biggest problem with engineered flooring isn't scratching. It's denting. The finish holds up well but the hardwood is a thin cosmetic layer over plywood, and plywood is soft wood.
Nice Floors
I agree with you sentiment about the hardwood floors. We just built a new home and ended up using engineered flooring because everyone told us that we needed to use it over radiant heat. I'm not convinced...and if...big if...I ever build another new home I'll just go for it with solid wood. Having said that our brazilian cherry engineered floor is actually holding up pretty well.
Best of luck witht he project.